19. Grace Under Pressure with Secretary Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez

Just eight months into her role as Appointments Secretary for the State of California, Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez found herself in the situation room with Governor Gavin Newsom. With her cabinet experience during 9/11, Cathryn was asked to support those on the frontlines of COVID-19, while also being faced with staffing an administration during an unprecedented global health crisis.

As the California Appointments Secretary, Cathryn and her team are responsible for recruiting the roughly 4,000 Governor appointed positions throughout the state. Hiring in government has its challenges; however, as the realities of COVID-19 settled in, Cathryn and her team had to quickly pivot their approach.

In this episode of HiPERleadership, Secretary Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez shares how she rolled up her sleeves and creatively sourced new talent at a time when changing careers was exponentially more stressful. Cathryn also shares valuable recruiting tips to find talent that align with your company's mission and can exhibit grace under pressure.

Transcript

David Morris  00:10

Welcome to season two of the HiPERleadership Podcast. I am your host, David Morris, CEO and founder of HiPER Solutions. At HiPER Solutions, our mission is to bring positive change to the world. Leaders today are faced with unprecedented change, and yet even the best leaders have had to toss out their standard playbook and think outside the box. Our intent with the HiPERleadership Podcast is to share best practices so that you, our listeners, can gain some actionable and practical approaches to your next big-bet endeavor. Joining us in today's episode, we have Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez, the Appointments Secretary for the Office of Governor Gavin Newsom. In her role, Cathryn leads the team who identifies and recruits all the appointed positions in the state of California for Governor Newsom. And really a pleasure to get to know Cathryn several months back now. Hi, Cathryn.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  01:08

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

David Morris  01:10

Thank you so much for joining us today. When we were speaking originally, and you went back into this role, this was mid-March 2020; and help us understand the mission at hand.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  01:24

Well, as you know, I had been at the Appointments Secretary for only eight months at the time that COVID first hit. The administration had a tabletop exercise late February; and by mid March, I was asked if I would help the Cabinet Secretary and her entire team, and the administration, by working in Emergency Response. The reason I believe I was asked to do that was because as chief deputy under the Davis administration, I did have the Office of Emergency Services in my portfolio during the time that 9/11 hit and for the four years that I was in the administration. And at that point, I think it was all hands on deck. So everybody was being repurposed. The governor signed an executive order extending all of my appointment deadlines; my chief deputy stepped up to handle the day to day; and I began working at the state operations center with the director and staff that I had worked with 20 years ago. And I did that for a full - probably for around a month and a half.

David Morris  02:23

One day you're sitting there, and all of a sudden the idea surfaces that it's time to get back to recruiting. Help us understand the magnitude of how many governor appointees there are and, you know, what your team of 12 or so is tasked with.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  02:40

So the governor has approximately 4000 appointees that he is responsible for; and at any given moment, as you can imagine, there are vacancies that occur just on a natural cadence, along with the fact that many of our positions are also termed. And so, just under the natural [cadence], people are terming out. So there is a team of 12 of us because, at any given time, each one of them is working on anywhere from 60 to 100 on any given day and trying to prioritize, obviously. What happened with COVID, of course, is those priorities shifted drastically, where we had to start focusing on where those vacancies were and who we needed to do what. And that was really the discussion that the governor and I had because we were working very closely. He is so hands on. I mean, obviously, he was seeing firsthand; and something that the appointments secretary doesn't usually get to do is I was able to see firsthand the appointees that we had in the administration. And we knew that they were going to continue to be needs that were going to need to be met, and that we were going to need people in really critical positions to address the multifaceted response to the pandemic. So we talked about that it was time for me to go back to the appointments full-time and really focus my efforts on those recruitment efforts that really changed, also, overnight how appointments were done because of the stay at home order. And because of just COVID in general.

David Morris  04:16

There is all this uncertainty, yet you have this foresight of the magnitude of hiring at a very senior level that needs to occur over the next year. What are some of the headwinds that you're faced with in being able to attract executives?

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  04:33

At that time, just as I was doing and many others, people were trying to just adjust to what this new normal was. They were trying to figure out how to do their jobs from home. They were trying to figure out - if you have children at home - online school. It is the worst time, as you can imagine, when while people are trying to navigate that environment, to then come in and ask them to do what is one of the most stressful things that we do in life; and that is to change their careers. That was definitely a challenge that we were facing. I have said before, we often will cold call people. We identify the skill set. Many times, we're fortunate enough that that skill set is in our application system; but very often there's an individual out there who is very happy doing the job that they're doing, and they're doing it well, and we know that we need that person to come into the administration. So we cold call people, and like I said, I am a telemarketer. And it is that discussion about empathizing with their situation, while also asking them to please come and be a part of the solution that this governor saw moving forward. And I get told no, more often than I get told yes; but it's really about finding that person and the person that wants to be a part of this; and ultimately, we only need one person. It really takes a lot of time on the effort of my team and myself; and I will say that when I came back during COVID, in a remote environment, I spent most of my time trying to schedule zoom workshops. People often were reaching out, too. I took every opportunity that I could to have my face on a screen to try to encourage people to really make those very large life decisions and come and work with us. And there was also a lot of stakeholder outreach, as you can imagine, that had to be done. And it definitely was more intense and at a faster clip than it would have been in a non-COVID environment.

David Morris  06:23

And I'm just imagining there's probably people leaving, as well, right? Relocating. Resigning. I mean, all the moving pieces, in terms of the amount of vacancies, help us understand the magnitude of that.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  06:36

Yeah, I mean, many people, for very valid reasons, decided that COVID had really changed the way that they viewed the next year [or] years of their career. We had people who had been recently reappointed come and say, "You know what, I have decided I would rather be in another state with my grandchildren; and I thought I was going to be able to do this, but this has really changed my outlook." Along with just people, for their own personal reasons, deciding they did not want to operate in this environment. Then [President] Biden gets elected on top of all of that; and much of our talent, because we have so much of it, also goes out the door. So people leave every week for, again, very valid reasons. But that is why we have the job that we do. And we really do look at it as an opportunity because you have to let go of the loss and think about, "Okay, this function still needs to happen. What opportunities can we look for now? What skill set? Is there something else that we can do here?" And it is just a constant process of identification - finding the people, again. People also were willing to move from other states to California during this time just to be a part of the solution. So just as how we have people leaving, we also have been very fortunate to really bring in some incredible talent. Most recently, the governor announced the appointment of Natalie Palugyai as our new Labor Secretary. She is moving from Maryland. [She is the] first Latina secretary, [has] immigrant parents, and is really going to be a champion for working families. We lost Secretary Sue, who's going to go to the Biden administration, which is fantastic; but it was an opportunity for us to bring somebody else in. So, you know, we're really fortunate that we have continued through our recruitment efforts to really make sure that we have the right people in place.

David Morris  08:24

It almost seems like you would have had to take five steps back to go 20 steps forward in terms of new protocols, policies, etc. People being able to work remotely, being able to make commitments to candidates even as policies aren't even totally clear on what their workplace environment would be, especially as you're hiring outside of Sacramento. What were some of the key decisions that were made that really will change hiring longer term?

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  08:50

I think probably the one that is paramount is the idea that in order to work in the administration that you need to be in Sacramento. As we know, many [or] most, I would say, of these agencies and departments are housed here in Sacramento. What we have found out, obviously, through COVID is that that is not necessarily the case. Not that there aren't going to be times when we need people in the seats at meetings, but it definitely showed how much we were able to accomplish in that an actual physical presence that people did not necessarily have to uproot their entire families in order to serve. And that has definitely increased our capacity to recruit and hire individuals. And I would imagine that that will continue going forward, which is not how it was 20 years ago; but it was very much a [situation where] if you want a job in administration, you need to be in Sacramento; and that's just not the case anymore.

David Morris  09:44

Other decisions like that, that had to be made pretty quickly in order to open up new candidate pools?

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  09:51

I would say that that was probably the primary one. And I think, also, we have a lot of people that we try to recruit, I will say, from unicipalities, from cities, [and] from counties. And so I think we were trying to look at how we could incentivize people whether it was, you know, helping with - if they are moving - moving costs, talking to them about benefits. There was a lot done, although, we were in a bit of a budget crunch. And now, of course, that has helped us out incredibly with the pay cut being reinstituted, as well as, with the new raise that has been given across the board. That has definitely helped us to compete with other areas that tend to be much more lucrative than the state. But I will say, I think, and again, not patting myself on the back because what we sell is this governor's vision and his initiatives; and that is that, very often, it is us telling people what his vision is - what he is asking them to execute. With this new budget that he just announced, there are so many initiatives. And once that budget is - right now, it's just on paper. The only people who are going to be able to make sure that it is executed to actually fulfill what he has promised the people of California are going to be his appointees. And so for us, we tell people; we make sure they understand exactly what they are walking into. And many times that is what excites people; that is what motivates them. [It] is the idea of taking on a challenge like that.

David Morris  11:16

We know diversity from all angles: diversity of thought, background, all sides, which [I would] love to get your perspective on what made for the best teams - you know, constituency - that's so diverse. How did you balance that because what you achieved is simply mind-boggling in terms of the scale of types of backgrounds that have been recruited. You know, it's so easy when there's a crisis for a leader to just default to hiring people like themselves; but that's quite the contrary with the governor's idea.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  11:48

It really is, and it's one of the reasons why I decided to take this job. I often tell the story of the fact that my parents had me when they were very young. My mother made my clothes for my first days of school. They were foreign workers, initially. They both ended up getting great jobs - my mom ended up working for an appointee for the state of Arizona by the time she retired from her career - but the struggles that we went through are a vivid reminder for me on a daily basis of what the struggles of Californians are. And that is something that when, you know, you're asked to fill those positions, that is what we talked about with candidates. The governor, when I talk to him, doesn't say, "Where did they go to school? How many degrees do they have?" Because he knows I've already checked the boxes that need to be checked. His question to me is, "Why do they want to serve? Why do they want this position?" And very often, there is a very personal story attached to why this individual decided to take on this challenge. And it has proven so critical for us in many high profile positions. I mean, we appointed the first African American woman as the Commissioner for the California Highway Patrol; and this was after going through a degree and continue to deal with racial unrest. We also reported the first Latina as the Director of the Department of General Services, again responsible for all of the procurement that is part of COVID, as well as reducing the state footprint, as this governor has committed to do. And there are so many others; each of them brings a story. And that is even when you look at Natalie, Secretary Palugyai's, story coming into labor. Her story as an immigrant story, and it just resonates. So many of these people have that story; and it is why they end up in the positions that they are in.

David Morris  13:37

In terms of the way you went about that, how did you ensure that type of diversity of background along the way, while matching all the capability? How did you balance all of that? You talked about zoom meetings that you did and any opportunities, you know, to get the message out, which is terrific. What were some of the targeted approaches you used to make sure that it really was balanced in the end?

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  14:02

This process - the appointments process - people think of it as being a little mysterious, so I always try to demystify it. We're an employment agency, so we start from the recruitment - from trying to find who the superstars out there [are], from doing the outreach, and having those discussions - making sure somebody is the right fit. I will tell you, from the very beginning, the application itself is very detailed. It does ask a lot of sensitive questions, but it's not asking the questions that are important to this governor that you can only get from a discussion. And these appointees - everybody that has been appointed - goes through a multitude of interviews that start from a department level, goes to an agency level, [and] comes to the governor's office. And I think people are surprised sometimes to hear that this governor signs off on every single appointment. There's not a single one that he does not know the name, the story, their purpose, [and] the connection. So that's our job to tell that story because that's what matters to him. And it's something that happens over a very long period of time. I think, in addition to the cold call of asking people to re - you know - imagine what their next career is going to look like, the other thing that we often do is I will ask people to broaden their idea of what their responsibilities that they think that they should be capable of; and, for example, we have people within the administration doing an amazing job doing what they're doing. With Ana Lasso, the DGS Director, I was interviewing her to continue to be the general manager of the Exposition Park. She had been in that position and was appointed by Brown in 2014. And she's talking about real estate and contracts and managing stakeholders. And all I could think is she - this is a microcosm of DGS - and she has been there now since 2014. She could do that job. And it's having that discussion with people to, hopefully, get them to the point where they see themselves in those positions. And very often, by the end of it, that is what they end up telling me in return is, "I never thought that I would, you know, sort of branch out. Thank you for thinking of that, that this would be something that I could do." It's multifaceted, and every appointment is different in how we go about it; but I would say it really is a lot of time to talk to people. I want them to feel heard. I want to hear them. You know, I really want them to know that, having been an appointee four times, I've been on the other side of this. For me, it's really about making them feel like their issues, their considerations, [and] the things that are important to them matter to us because they do; and working through those, a lot of the times, and not being impatient because in the end, getting the right person in the seat is priceless.

David Morris  16:41

Grace under pressure. Your temperament on this has been really remarkable. Really hearing about your background - you know, starting out at UC Berkeley and then these variety of roles you've played - we find that game changers oftentimes come into a role and they can be objective because they've not done that before. And I'm just sort of curious about, over the course of the years, if there's a particular behavior you feel you've honed the more times you've been put into these sort of tours of duty that's been really helpful for your leadership.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  17:14

I think a lot of it has been the fact that I've been in Sacramento politics for over 22 years now. When I came into it, I was very green. I learned a lot of great skills about work product, temperament, leadership. One of the things I learned very [early] on is you don't guess things; you either know them or you go get the answer, and then you know them. So there are certain skills - especially when the stakes are so high - and the stakes, not so much from a political standpoint but for California, where this governor is trying to improve the life for Californians. So when you have the opportunity to be a part of that, you better make sure you know what you're doing; and you don't really have the option of panicking. You really have to be able to make the determination, take the time, hopefully lead a team of people to do the same, and really work through it. But part of it, too, is when this all first happened, the governor talked to the entire staff; and [he] made it very clear [that] we all had a job to do; he was going to continue to do his job; we needed to continue to do our jobs; and his grace under pressure really resonated through the rest of us and allowed us to move forward, not to be afraid, and to simply plod through what has been just an incredible and unprecedented time for any administration. As I said before, you know, I was here for 9/11 and that was a point in time. It was not a moving target the way this pandemic has been. Having been through that was a very small piece, but there are definitely lessons I learned from that process that I used going in and trying to handle COVID and recruiting at this time. Does it go back to childhood, as well, as you think about some of these traits that you've depended upon? I would like to say that, but I will tell you especially because I didn't know what an appointments secretary was. I wasn't even really clear on politics. I would like to say that that is the case. But I think the one thing that I did see - that definitely was in my parents and watching my mother get her degree while she was raising a small child and then also working full time at a state job - was that level of commitment and work. And it is not about me. And I think that is probably the most important thing that appointees bring to this. [That] is we are all part of a mission, and we are all trying to do the best that we can; and we know what our responsibilities are, and we're trying to carry them out in the best way possible. And if you're trying to do that, it just can't be about you. That is probably one of the qualities that I hope that I bring to this job, and it's also a quality that I am always looking for in the people that I recommend to the governor.

David Morris  19:58

So with all of that in mind, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of a fortune 100 CEO, or even a president of a country, and you're looking to recruit a leader that has this grace under pressure, what may be some approaches you use either with interview questions, references, etc., to really identify somebody with these traits?

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  20:20

I think, one, there is always, of course, demonstrated experience. As I mentioned, I think the fact that I had served in the cabinet position was why - one of the reasons, along with my temperament because I was working with people who knew me well. The fact that I knew the importance of choosing the right people to serve. I knew what the roles were, I knew what the responsibilities were, and I knew what the skill set was. That definitely accounts for part of that. And then the other part really is about getting to that level of motivation because motivation is so critical. It's what is going to get you through adversity; and it is a trait that I've seen throughout, while with the governor and the senior staff and the administration, is this ability to really make critical decisions in adverse conditions, which is not something a lot of people are used to doing. On top of that, adverse conditions that then are public. A lot of the times people work in jobs that you don't have to worry necessarily about the decisions that you are making and, in my case, the decisions I would be making about the people we are putting in place. That is all transparent and public. If a mistake gets made, everybody knows it; and they know it immediately. It's really about having that ability to, like you said, to be grace under pressure, to make those decisions, to not panic in those situations. And that's why when you look at demonstrated experience, and when I talk to individuals, I talk a lot about what in your personal or professional life is bringing you to do this now. Probably one of the things I enjoy most about this job is that I get to talk to people that have incredibly compelling stories - people who are, you know, serving on medical boards, for example, who lose their grandmother and their great grandmother breast cancer; undocumented students and individuals that are serving throughout this administration, who can bring the immigrant story to bear; people who teach in Thailand English to children who lost relatives to the tsunami. When we talk to people, again, we know what the resume says. But that's the discussion. It is around motivation, demonstrated experience, and temperament, and how do they react in what could be a very public and adverse situation at times because not everybody is made out for that. It's one of the things that I tell appointees to do before they embark even in the process. I tell them, "You should google this board or commission or role that you were thinking about doing because that's going to be the best way for you to know if there's a chance that you'll be in the paper someday." Because that's not for everybody. It really isn't. There are a lot of people that right there is the end of the discussion. So it has to be somebody who's ready for that kind of challenge, who's ready to have their work essentially be put on display. And that's just not something that everybody has. But it is something that you need to have to be a part of an administration that is so transparent, as this one is.

David Morris  23:21

And [it's] really critical for the new normal. 

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  23:23

Right. 

David Morris  23:24

This has been really terrific. Thank you, Secretary.

Cathryn Rivera-Hernandez  23:26

Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk with you. I appreciate it.

David Morris  23:32

And to our listeners, thank you for your continued support and feedback. Stay tuned for more exciting guests that we have in store for you. And be sure to subscribe to the HiPERleadership Podcast on your favorite platform so you're the first to know when new episodes are released. And if you have a big transformational program you're leading, visit our website to learn more about how we help align teams and stakeholders for excellence at www.hipersolutions.com.